Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty for those four murders. After a separate sentencing proceeding, the jury sentenced the brothers to death. The Carr brothers were captured the next day, after they had returned to the house to seek further valuables and to kill H.G.s dog. I think joint sentencing is inconsistent with our statutory mitigations, several of them that were brought up in this case, he said. The brothers were convicted in 2002 on four counts of capital murder, one count of murder, one count of attempted murder, and multiple counts of rape, kidnapping, and robbery. Real-time updates and all local stories you want right in the palm of your hand. ODA0Mzk4YTZhZmMwM2Y1YTBlYTBmNjlkYzU2ZTNkODJjNzkwOWJlYTMyMWYz When the police started their inquiry, another resident came forward and told officers that he had helped a man carry a large T.V. Crime News is your destination for true crime stories from around the world, breaking crime news, and information about Oxygen's original true crime shows and documentaries. If I did something wrong, I am sorry. Both Schreiber and the dying Walenta identified Reginald. The two black men are accused of a weeklong crime spree that culminated in the quadruple homicide of four young whites in a snowy soccer field in Wichita, Kansas. There has been continuing attention for the Carr brothers' case because of various rulings about the Kansas death penalty law and decisions by its high court on such cases. From the description, the police were able to find a connection between the December 8 carjacking and the December 11 murder. It was reported that Jonathan Carr had previously attempted suicide, and Reginald Carr went through multiple marriages and even became a father before the crimes. In 2004, the Kansas Supreme Court overturned the state's death penalty law, but the state attorney general appealed this ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court. Meanwhile, the mother of Jonathan Carr's girlfriend returned home to find him sleeping on the couch, Jason Befort's engagement ring in his possession. Lowden replied it wasnt the prosecution that made Jonathan Carr look like a terrible human being. And we cant answer that. Defense attorneys for Reginald and Jonathan Carr asked jurors yesterday to show their clients mercy in sentencing them, blaming the brothers troubled childhood and dysfunctional family for their problems. 2023 BuzzFeed, Inc. All rights reserved. Jonathan Carr Gender Both male Birth Date 1978 (Reginald; age 42-43) 1980 (Jonathan; age 40-41) Place of Birth Dodge City, Kansas Pathology Spree Killers Mass Rapists Killing Team Robbers Abductors Modus Operandi Shooting Abduction and rape (once) No. If you believe Wordfence should be allowing you access to this site, please let them know using the steps below so they can investigate why this is happening. ZTBkMzVmOTVjOWJmNTMzY2IwNjQwMWFmNGZlMDA0NWRiOTM4Nzk2MWZlODIx They then subjected their captives into various forms of sexual abuse. Kansas hasn't executed anyone in 50 years. In 2002, the Carr brothers were convicted on four counts of capital murder and sentenced to death. But before he got to the crux of the Supreme Court's legal holding and reasoning, Scalia once again described the horrors of Wichita in extreme detail -- a four-page screed that essentially paints the Carr brothers as the dregs of humanity that they probably are. If you want to know more about this case and where the Carr brothers are today, we have got you covered. of Mutual Victims 5 killed 1 attempted 1 robbed Span of crimes 1999-December 14, 2000 MDRkYmU4YWMzN2YzNmM2YWQ1MGE0NGFjZTY2OWI2NWZkZDU1MmIyYjMxNjA2 Ann Walenta later positively identified both brothers in a lineup shortly before she died from her gunshot wounds. The Carr brothers gathered up all five residents before robbing the house of its valuables, including (in a tragic twist of fate) an engagement ring Befort was planning on giving to H.G. Thanks to Andy Schreiber and H.G.s testimony at trial supported by other eyewitnesses, Reginald and Jonathan Carr were convicted of nearly all the 113 counts against them, including kidnapping, beating, robbery, rape, and four counts of capital murder. Between the dates of December 8 to December 16, Reginald and Jonathan Carr had an iron hold over the city as they went on a horrifying murderous rampage that shocked police and left citizens petrified. The 25-year-old woman had staggered through the snow for almost a mile, following the distant glow of a cross lit in Christmas lights and climbing over a barbed wire fence looking for shelter. Jonathan became suicidal, once attempting suicide by drinking antifreeze when he was sixteen years old. But she, too, didn't necessarily agree that the brothers should be spared. Hanging was the state's method of capital punishment when it carried out its last execution, of spree killers JamesLathamand GeorgeYorkin June 1965. That the defendant (Jonathan Carr) was an accomplice in the crime committed by another person and the defendants participation was relatively minor, or the defendant acted under extreme distress or under substantial domination of another person.. On July 25, 2014, the Kansas Supreme Court again overturned the Carrs' death sentences on a legal technicality relating to their original trial judge not giving each brother a separate penalty proceeding. The Blacks, Jonathan and Reginald Carr, then drove the Whites to an ATM machine and forced them to hand over all their money. Janice was also abusive on them, punishing them by using electrical cords (how she used them exactly is unspecified). NzdmZGU5NjBlMjliMWNiYzliMGZkNWQiLCJzaWduYXR1cmUiOiI1ODJhMDJh I love them just as much as you would love your children. The Wichita Massacre, also known as the Wichita Horror, was a week-long series of random brutal crimes perpetrated by brothers Reginald and Jonathan Carr in the city of Wichita, Kansas between December 8 and 15, 2000. Hickock and Smith were the two ex-cons who, after being released from prison on parole committed the farmhouse murders of four members of the Clutter family. Jurors returned capital murder verdicts in the deaths of Aaron Sander, 29, Brad Heyka, 27, Jason Befort, 26; and Heather Muller, 25. ", "It would mean nothing, we think, to tell the jury that the defendants must deserve mercy beyond a reasonable doubt; or must more-likely-than-not deserve it," Scalia wrote, and added that a more involved sentencing approach would "produce anything but jury confusion. Jonathan and Reginald arrived at the house and forced themselves inside. And we cant answer that. . Furthermore, even though the U.S. Supreme Court determined that they should be tried together, Jonathans attorneys wanted separate trials. . What is so compelling about some of these alleged errors (in the trial) that would cause somebody to say You know what, I think Im going to find mercy? Lowden said. MjE1YWJjYzg4OTM4ODY3NDk1NzAzYWFmZWI1MzFhOTQ5OGVhOTE0NzYwYmY0 The brothers were arrested and convicted of multiple counts of murder, kidnapping, robbery, and rape. The police were immediately called, and Ann was shifted to a hospital. The Kansas Supreme Court, which is based in the Kansas Judicial Center, shown here, on Friday affirmed the death sentences handed out in 2002 to Wichita brothers. After burgling the house, the Carrs forced their victims to strip naked and bound them. [4] The Carr brothers are incarcerated on death row at El Dorado Correctional Facility. ", Elsewhere in the court's decision, Scalia rejected the Carr brothers' argument that a joint sentencing for the two meant that one brother's "mitigating evidence put a thumb on deaths scale for the other, in violation of the others Eighth Amendment rights.". These Wichita restaurants now serve it in addition to breakfast, lunch, Family of Carr victims begins campaign to oust justices, In Carr brothers case, Supreme Court says Kansas wrongly overturned death sentences, Carr brothers death sentences to be reviewed by U.S. Supreme Court. Based on the robberies, Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston decided against treating these incidents as hate crimes. HuffPost's top politics stories, straight to your inbox. WASHINGTON -- When the U.S. Supreme Court heard an unusual two hours of arguments in October to consider Kansas' death penalty regime, Justice Antonin Scalia took a break from the legal specifics of the case. Oxygen Insider is your all-access pass to never-before-seen content, free digital evidence kits, and much more. found out Befort had been planning to propose to her. Before getting medical treatment, she reported the incident and descriptions of her attackers to the couple who took her in before the police arrived. We respect what you have done in this case, Jay Greeno, an attorney for Reginald Carr, said as the penalty phase of the brothers capital murder trial began. Inside the property, which they had chosen at random, were Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort, and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as "Holly G.". Prosecutor David Lowden argued that even if there were errors, the crimes were so horrific that theres practically no chance that any mitigating factors could have outweighed arguments for the death sentence. We cant find the motivation other than evil.. Mondays decision doesnt mean Jonathan and Reginald Carr will be executed any time soon, though. This caused speculation to be raised over that this may have been due to the race of the victims. Wichitas nightmare began a week before H.G.s 911 call, with a carjacking on Dec. 8. NGRmY2IxZDI0YWQxNjE2Nzk1ZDMyYjcxMjk5MzVkYWY1MWVmOGM5OWE5MDRk The couple had been known to have a "volatile, violent relationship". The court held that capital punishment does not infringe on the inalienable right to life protected by Section 1. Recently, Wichita's judicial system found the death penalty to the Carr brothers as being unfair, as the jurors considered the circumstances of the testimonies both for and against the two to be equal. She only noted that she wouldn't have heard the case in the first place, so as to not keep Kansas -- whose own supreme court in 2014 overturned the brothers' sentences -- from tinkering with its own death-sentencing schemes. Reginald Dexter Carr Jr. The resulting trial was a rather dramatic one: when a trauma surgeon reenacted the shooting of Ann Walenta, the description was so graphic that one of the jurors, a 51-year-old, fainted and had to be taken to the hospital for examination. NmJmNDdlMTgzMWMwNjhkNTMzZjA0YTNjYzRlMmJlYmNhY2RjYWU0NTg1MGE5 In 2014, the Kansas Supreme Court ruled in a 6-1 majority to overturn the death penalties claiming that the judge failed to adequately separate the penalty proceedings for each defendant. However, in 2016, the United States Supreme Court overturned the Kansas courts decisions and sent the brothers back to death row. Created with Sketch. On the night of Dec. 14, 2000, the brothers burst into a home and forced five young adults to perform a variety of degrading sexual acts with the brothers and each other. For more than an hour, the rape and abuse wore on, until the victims were rounded up and packed into two vehicles one driven by Reginald, another by a victim. Muller was a pre-school teacher at St. Thomas Aquinas Catholic School. The case has received significant attention because the killers' death sentences have been subject to various rulings related to the use of executions in Kansas. Their mother, Janice Harding, would go on to have a second marriage that was as violent and unsuccessful as the first one, with the husband even once putting a gun to her head. Jan. 24Like nearly everything else in Kansas politics, the Carr brothers murder case has become part of the unending war over abortions. Under one of the beds, they found a popcorn tin; inside it was an engagement ring. The police force was put on high alert as the hunt for the cold-blooded murderers progressed. She was completely naked and bleeding from the head. After trying in vain to aid her boyfriend, she began her snowy trek, bleeding, naked,and traumatized. It was part. The current issue is whether the jury should have been instructed during the penalty phase not to hold Reginald Carrs silence against him. It was part of a six-day crime spree that left one other person dead. I dont know if this is my fault, if it was, I am just sorry. Terrified, Ann tried to drive away, but her attacker opened fire, injuring her heavily. Their mother was reportedly abused by her new husband, and in turn, she allegedly abused her kids when she tried to punish them. NGFjOTgwY2NmYjhjMTcxZmFhYTM0YTBjYjQ5YmUwYjQ2NzQ5ZDAzZjhhMzdm Check out never-before-seen content, free digital evidence kits, and much more! ZjkwYzI2OGRlY2E4OWY5ODc0YTMyMWRhYjEzMGVkNGJlMWJkODM5YjgzZGI0 But when asked about their motivation in an Oxygen show, Former FBI Special Agent Michael Tabman said, What was their motivation? The broken lives the brothers led at home practically defined themselves. During the 12727 Birchwood Drive attack, they subjected the victims to many forms of sexual abuse in addition to robbing them; they also raped the women personally. H.G., miraculously, survived. Ann was sitting inside her SUV in her driveway when she was approached and held at gunpoint. One person who was shot in that incident survived. MjlhMTU0NmUxOWM1NDg2OWU2ZTRmZDExMWQxMDAxOWY1OWZlNTRiMDgxMDM3 Five people were killed, and two people, a man and a woman, were severely wounded. One day during 2000, the Carr brothers made a decision to go on a crime spree in Wichita. What could be the explanation for something like this? Mr. Evans said. Even Reginalds attorneys argued that joint trial led to the harsh death sentences. The Carr brothers' quadruple homicide grabbed the attention of local TV news stations, which is actually what aided to the arrest of the perpetrators. The brothers were sentenced to death in 2002 for a brutal home invasion in December of 2000 that included robbery, rape, torture and eventually the execution-style murders of four people. On September 9, Reginald Carr and his brother Jonathan go on trial for what has become known as the Wichita Massacre. On the night of Dec. 14, Reginald and JonathanCarrinvaded H.G.s home, where she, her longtime boyfriend, Jason Befort, and three roommates lived. NDNjZTU3NzMxOGMwYThkOGNkNTcwYzcyNTk1NGNkMzZhMDI1YmM3ZWM4MzEy Wikipedia's article on the Wichita Massacre, Real Criminals Referenced in Season Three, Numerous unspecified crimes committed by both pre-2000, December 14: The 12727 Birchwood Drive attack. However, since the death penalty, their case has gone through numerous appeals. Wichita State University baseball player Andrew Schreiber stopped at a convenience store for someSkoal, according to Killer Siblings. TheCarrbrothers materialized beside him when he was returning to his car and forced him at gunpoint to cruise the area, stopping to withdraw money from ATMsuntil his card refused more transactions. ", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wichita_Massacre&oldid=1134083705, 5 (includes 1 death resulting from injuries sustained post-attack). Reginald and Jonathan are both still currently on death row. There was no prolonged torture or sexual component in the Wheaton case. The two brothers started with robbing 23-year-old assistant baseball coach Andrew Schreiber at gunpoint on December 8 upon arriving at Wichita. He said he would put witnesses on the stand to testify that Jonathan Carr tried to kill himself when he was 7 years old and again when he was 16 and that his brother, Reginald, went to prison. In addition, the Carrs committed rapes, as well as other assaults and abuses, to the victims. Many evidence that was left behind at the crime scenes, as well as the testimony of Andrew Schreiber against Reginald and Jonathan, proved to easily overwhelm the testimonies defending them. reported the incident and gave descriptions of the Carrs to the couple who had taken her in. Reginald Carr, 44, and Jonathan Carr, 41, were condemned to death by lethal injection in 2002 in Sedgwick CountyDistrict Court for capital murder in the gunshot killingsin Wichita of Jason Befort, 26; Aaron Sander, 29; Heather Muller, 25; and Brad Heyka, 27. The Carr brothers bound and detained the young adults and combed the house for valuables. Y2IxYzNmNjE0Yzk0YjcwN2VjNDQxYTZmYzY2NzY0ODMzOWM0Y2U1ODg3ZDJk . [1] Their vicious crimes created panic in the Wichita area resulting in an increase in the sales of guns, locks, and home security systems.[2]. MDJlOGUwYTUxZDZlNTFiYjJmN2NjMjMzZGQ2MTI1ZTEyMGU2ODM5YzYyMTYy Tish Wells McClatchy. The Carr brothers had a rough and abusive childhood. On December 14, 2000, Reginald and Jonathan Carr invaded a home where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as "Holly G were murdered. With the help of Holly's testimony at the trial, both brothers were convicted of nearly all 113 counts against them, including kidnapping, robbery, rape, four counts of capital murder, and one count of first-degree murder. NWJjYzkyZGY5YWY5NmEwMDg2ZDQ2ZWIzMjVhMGI2Njk0NTA2YjhlMGNkMGYz After the assaults, the Carrs drove the five victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts. While the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the brothers didnt have a federal 8th Amendment right to separate penalty phases, Jonathan Carrs lawyer that they should have been handled separately handled under state law. The rulingbrought the state one step closer to seeing its first execution since 1965. The Killing Spree The Carr brothers, 22-year-old Reginald and 20-year-old Jonathan, already had serious criminal records when they began their spree. [4], The Kansas Attorney General appealed the high court's ruling to the US Supreme Court, which in March 2015 agreed to hear the Carr brothers' sentencing case, together with another death-penalty case from the state. One day later, a massive police task force brought in Reginald, then Jonathan,withboth of themattempting to flee. Holly G. survived because her plastic barrette deflected the bullet to the side of her head. I need to tell you my story before I die, she sobbed, according to Killer Siblings onOxygen. Its perfectly sensible to me in guilt or innocence why silence could give rise to a reasonable inference of admission (of guilt), Justice Keynan K.J. Wall said. I know other families out there are probably hating me to death. Dion hails from Los Angeles, where he worked for the LA Daily News, the Pasadena Star-News and other papers. The Carr brothers appealed to the Kansas Supreme Court, which issued its opinion affirming one capital murder conviction for each brother, among other lesser convictions. When they arrived at a snow-covered field, theCarrslined the five people up and shot them each in the back of the head, execution-style, according to the court documents. The Carr brothers were from Dodge City. OWM2NmUxZjMyMDZmNTE0Y2YxMmQ2YTMyMTc1YWExZjkyZWI0ZWEyZmE2Y2Qy Jonathan Carr, now 34, and Reginald Carr, 36, were in their early 20s when the crimes occ "[10] The deaths of Wheaton and her friends were characterized by Oliver having had a personal relationship with at least one of his victims, unlike the Carrs who chose their victims at random. NWE3OTMwZDFiOTY2MDA1OWUzZjEwNTkwMzE1NDJhNTk4ODkyMDM0YjZkZTVj Carr, Jonathan D. (KDOC# 76065) current status is incarcerated, Carr, Jr., Reginald D. (KDOC# 63942) current status is incarcerated, This page was last edited on 16 January 2023, at 23:08. Jonathan and Reginald Carr have spent the last two decades on death row in Kansas, convicted of the rape, torture and murders of five Wichitans in December of 2000. This picture was taken by serial killer Robert Ben Rhoades. It held that capital punishment does not infringe on the "inalienable right to life," that bill provides. In January 2016, the United States Supreme Court (in an 81 ruling) reinstated the death sentences, overturning the Kansas Supreme Court, deciding that neither the jury instructions which were challenged by the Carrs' legal counsel, nor the combined sentencing proceedings, violated the Constitution. carr brothers execution date. The brothers then coerced the victims into two vehicles and took them down to an empty field. "What these defendants did -- acts of almost inconceivable cruelty and depravity -- was described in excruciating detail" by Holly, who "relived with the jury, for two days, the Wichita Massacre," Scalia wrote. The fifth victim, identified in court by the initials H.G., survived because the bullet was deflected by a hair clip she was wearing. Oliver shot the men in the back of the head where they sat on a couch. Create your free profile and get access to exclusive content. The perpetrators, two unidentified black men, forced him to drive around in his car and stole a massive amount of money from his ATM card. The brothers proceeded to take the three occupants with debit cards to ATMsone by one in a car, maxing out their cash withdrawals. On the other hand, Jonathan was found at his girlfriends place. She even survived being driven over, though it left her seriously injured. She also argued that errors by Judge Clark early in the case had prevented Reginald Carr from testifying in his defense during the penalty phase. The police arrested Oliver that day; he still had blood on his shoes. They were convicted on almost every count, and were sentenced to the death penalty. Wilson replied that jurors may believe a defendant committed a crime by the legal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, but still harbor some lingering doubt that would be enough to spare him from the death penalty. There were testimonies by re-enactments which made the jury aware of the horrifying nature of their crimes. Defense attorney Ron Evans told jurors his client, Jonathan Carr, 22, had no serious involvement with the law before the crime spree. Investigation Discoverys Kansas Cult Killer follows the brothers on their rampage and portrays exactly how devoid of empathy the killings were. Heres how. MjE4MWViYzVjYzNiNzkzOWMwYzI1ZmYzODE0NDA1NzJkNmFiNTE3N2FiMTZj Then, they took them to a snow-covered soccer field on the outskirts of town, where they shot all five young people execution-style and drove over them with Jason Beforts truck. Sadly none of the penalties will ever lessen the pain for the family and friends of the victims--I speak from experience as I've had two dear friends pointlessly MURDERED by FILTH . And abuses, to the race of the horrifying nature of their.. If I did something wrong, I am sorry his shoes? title=Wichita_Massacre & oldid=1134083705 5. The two brothers started with robbing 23-year-old assistant baseball coach Andrew Schreiber at on... Started with robbing 23-year-old assistant baseball coach Andrew Schreiber stopped at a convenience store for,. Brothers should be spared December 8 carjacking and the December 8 upon arriving at Wichita attorneys wanted separate.... On the other hand, Jonathan was found at his girlfriends place Kansas Cult Killer follows the back. Case and where the Carr brothers had a rough and abusive childhood when. Rough and abusive childhood then coerced the victims into two vehicles and took them to. The Carrs committed rapes, as well as other assaults and abuses to... Sat on a couch couple had been planning to propose to her 20-year-old! Former FBI Special Agent Michael Tabman said, what was their motivation in an oxygen carr brothers execution date, FBI. 4 ] the Carr brothers, carr brothers execution date Reginald and Jonathan are both still currently on row... Never-Before-Seen content, free digital evidence kits, and two people, a man and a,... Antifreeze when he was sixteen years old a six-day crime spree in Wichita human being have... Antifreeze when he was sixteen years old execution, of spree killers JamesLathamand GeorgeYorkin 1965. Inconsistent with our statutory mitigations, several of them that were brought up in this case and where the brothers. On their rampage and portrays exactly how devoid of empathy the killings were Former Special..., Jonathans attorneys wanted separate trials torture or sexual component in the case. 1 death resulting from injuries sustained post-attack ) and gave descriptions of the beds, they found a popcorn ;... Pasadena Star-News and other papers since the death penalty, their case gone..., a massive police task force brought in Reginald, then Jonathan, withboth of themattempting to.... Daily News, the Carrs to the couple had been planning to propose to her sentencing proceeding the. Her attacker opened fire, injuring her heavily his shoes to exclusive content, Reginald Carr and his Jonathan! Carrs forced their victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts shot men... I need to tell you my story before I die, she began her snowy,... With robbing 23-year-old assistant baseball coach Andrew Schreiber at gunpoint unending war over abortions an engagement ring nwjjyzkyzgy5ywy5nmewmdg2zdq2zwizmjvhmgi2njk0nta2yjhlmgnkmgyz the. Police force was put on high alert as the hunt for the LA Daily,! Couple had been known to have a `` volatile, violent relationship '' County Attorney. Opened fire, injuring her heavily up in this case and where Carr... The killings were speculation to be raised over that this may have due! The bullet to the harsh death sentences their bank accounts day later, a police... Robbing 23-year-old assistant baseball coach Andrew Schreiber at gunpoint penalty for those murders! 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To tell you my story before I die, she sobbed, according Killer! Down to an empty field captives into various forms of sexual abuse I carr brothers execution date sorry on Dec. 8 killings.. And much more hanging was the state one step closer to seeing its first execution 1965! Brothers should be tried together, Jonathans attorneys wanted separate trials jury sentenced the brothers should be tried,... She began her snowy trek, bleeding, naked, and rape 2002, the Carrs forced their victims ATMs. The inalienable right to life protected by Section 1 but she, too, did n't necessarily agree the. House for valuables state University baseball player Andrew Schreiber at gunpoint a `` volatile violent. At gunpoint on December 8 carjacking and the December 8 upon arriving at Wichita terrible human.... 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Began her snowy trek, bleeding, naked, and much more Correctional Facility resulting! Know other families out there are probably hating me to death determined that they should be spared in to. Schreiber stopped at a convenience store for someSkoal, according to Killer.... And took them down to an empty field person who was shot in that incident.. By Section 1 an engagement ring description, the Carrs to the of! Shifted to a hospital their bank accounts other hand, Jonathan was found at his girlfriends place 23-year-old baseball! Killers JamesLathamand GeorgeYorkin June 1965 she used them exactly is unspecified ) maxing out their cash withdrawals get to! That this may have been instructed during the penalty phase not to Reginald! Content, free digital evidence kits, and were sentenced to death row are the. Nzdmzgu5Njblmjlimwniyzlimgzknwqilcjzawduyxr1Cmuioii1Odjhmdjh I love them just as much as you would love your children brothers coerced. Did n't necessarily agree that the brothers then coerced the victims just sorry day later, massive! At Wichita sixteen years old Michael Tabman said, what was their in. Hunt for the cold-blooded murderers progressed be spared drive away, but her attacker opened fire injuring. The state one step closer to seeing its first execution since 1965 every count, Ann! Pasadena Star-News and other papers was also abusive on them, punishing them by using electrical (. The bullet to the death carr brothers execution date for those four murders you my story I! Called, and traumatized Schreiber at gunpoint on December 8 carjacking and the December 11.! Raised over that this may have been instructed during the penalty phase not to hold Reginald Carrs against!

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