This trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. People wildly overstate the extent of this. It takes longer to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II stopping and just point at your silhouette. The 5.7 Tiger need APCR for that, which the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have. Germany suffers (and others too), balance, br, tanks, jets, etc. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. It was introduced in Update "Red Skies". Has 3 crew and carousel, so it doesn't fit survivability meta and it's armor can be penned by 9.0 premiums. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. But be aware of your week side armour. There is a great deal of difference in comparing the significance of gun handling of two medium tanks and that of a lightweight TD and a heavyweight medium tank. Not just "comparison in a drag race", but alsooff-road mobility, power to weight ratio and turning. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Really? I bought the premium centurion to grind britain and rarely had this problem. APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. The basic problem with this grievance is that people figure they need to have a vehicle as fast as their enemies to win--you dont. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. The Tiger I is hard to play and inferior to the Panther! Those T-Heavies are redicoulus. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? Walter Dorn. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. Not meta. And I've had 90mm HEAT non-pen on the tracks of a T34. What about T95? Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. But to the long 88 you can kill them rather easily. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. One advisory to all readers interested in posting: before you do post, be warned that, No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--, Nuclear Sciences, Robotics, All Things Engineering, History, 5. Say it in a few years and I'll take it as an excuse but until then I'd still say a solid 70% of the playerbase has them. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. The merits of ground vehicles rely on the triad--armor, firepower and mobility. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Just shoot turret for an easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the king tigers ammo gives a nice firework display. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. You can flank it and still fail to pen with many of the guns at this BR. Call me when it has the bombs and rockets just like the allies. The Challenger 2 is the third vehicle of this name, the first being the A30 Challenger, a World War II design using the Cromwell tank chassis with a 17-pounder gun. Come on, seriously? You can go through things but often times you die. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. The AR with no armor, lackluster speed, no guns, or perhaps the TA which can only do bomber hunting and perhaps a few light vehicles however with limited ammo and frail frame it will get eaten by .50 CAL You can check the loadout options, you either have to pick a fighter, bomber or an attacker, there are no multi task missile and bomb armed super props that can wreck havoc on the ground and then dominate the sky. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. Especially for such high brs. that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. Otherwise we can also assume incompetent Panther players who just drive on the highest hill and stand in the open hoping that noone sees them and try to snipe enemies. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. If you liked it, feel free to sub. Even I--a German player myself--am commonly hounded over this, despite presenting a great deal of strong testimony thats based on many years experienc. Also hull down does not stop long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and kill or wipe out your turret crew. I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. Besides, Panther II mounts the long 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it with ease. In other words it's very hard to find a proper backup. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. the Jumboturret. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. panzer ii light tank military history. Is this being discussed? He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . That ammo should not be stock! If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Does Germany suffer and from what? Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? I think that is what contributes in combination with what you mentioned for the low WR of Germans at the 5.7-6.7 BR range. Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. And here comes the issue with uptiers. Let me repeat that. They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. Spitfires can see the issue. As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? From my observations, Germany only seems to be one of the most popular single nation selections that people make and many of the people being looked at are often very low level (Level 11s are common, even at 5.X). Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). ", Road Cycling, Scale Modeling, RC Tank, Military History. Hardly an advantage. At least 5 times! The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. 2. By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. Think a bit ahead. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? history projects. The turret armor isn't much. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. The personal well being of the person who capped it means little to the team if they have succeeded--that part of their reason for being is fulfilled by then. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. You make it sound like the T series doesn't have to aim for weak points also. Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. The T-72 is mediocre in forward mobility, and has a painful -4kph reverse. If the team melts, the team melts. And in realistic they are mainly on maps with japan fighting on one side. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. 0 capable AA's, meanwhile germany is literally spoilt with choice. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Panther 2s didnt disappear. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. The tracks make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. He usually has like 5 different options. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. While light vehicles can rush about in cities, they're balanced in the cities by the same hard cover they benefit from. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. Clearly you haven't seen Gaijin's big maps from afar before. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. In that experience, I have found that German vehicles mobility is adequate and generally competitive with these peers--despite all of the derisive talk you hear otherwise. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . Most fws and 109s dont turn poorly either and will out turn a p-47 rather easily as they are heavier. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. And I've found that the damage output for apds is lacking I've put many rounds through tanks and if theirs more one rankits a problem as the one shot isn't likely. Tracks cover most of the hull so thats a no-go unless you're literally 10m away. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. they're glass cannons. 25 best luchs images in 2020 panzer ii military. Mobility - and this is actually the main point. Are there no third positions or one that is at least more pragmatic? According to the complaint, proof of German suffering is had in German win rates--which are often lower than their Allied peers WRs. Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the German tree that can do as the same thing. there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. June 1st, 2020 - panzer ii panzerkampfwagen ii pzkpfw ii sdkfz 121 was a light tank produced in germany in the 1930s until the outbreak of war between germany and the ussr tank . Also we know the stories about the feared King Tigerpacks who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear. This pretty much says it all, and it describesa fundamental problem with ground RB: the fastesttanks with decent firepowerare the only vehicles in WT that can set up ambushes early game (which helps setting up ambushes mid and late game as well); slower TDs and tanks can't fulfill this role in WT even if they were designed specifically for this purpose and fulfilled it very successfully irl; the brawling maps which drastically cut down the range of engagementscombined with the "early game race" effectively prevents this. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44. In tier III and IV gameplay bombs are not really needed to take out allied tanks. -ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided, - If the slow tank manages to guess the attack strategy of the faster tank he can setup and counter-ambush, - if there is position that overlooks the entire cap point and if you can reach it fast enough (so should be on your half of the map), - if you take your time to get to the cap point and the M18 doesn't use this time to simply cap. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. My general thoughts on what causes Germany to suffer: The Germans' main undoing are their teams--there's no doubt about it. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored. And if he turns it to the side literally shoot the huge side of the turret that will be exposed. And that brings me to the issues with the economy, the game's economy is soulcrushing, now I do understand that you need people to spend money (and for what it's worth I have), but there is little to no enjoyment for the average player in the game. People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. Sit in cover, spot an enemy in third person, pop out, shoot and repeat. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? The Panther A apcr can go through a turret of a T series at 400 meters if I'm correct. I have said quite the opposite honestly. If you want to do well with germany, I'd recommend playing 5.3 and below(where germany absolutely stomps thanks to a consistent firepower advantage) or 7.7 and above(where germany stomps due to a mobility advantage). Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. The best editions of doctor oz supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols. In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends Penetration isn't everything and it's wrong to assume that a heavy tank should be mostly immune to everything they face of similiar or lower BR. (I guess this is closely connected to the two major questions above (being interactions and economy)). The game is based around combined arms battles on air, land, and sea with vehicles from the Great War to today. Only switch to the 3rd auto gear if going down hills and on flat roads. Probably you should just Okha the last bomb into the target, cause rearming takes too long anyways. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. Maps in air battles are sometimes given to br.s that have no way of properly using them (I hear top jets get tiny maps sometimes) and low speed props get huge maps sometimes (even in jets some of the maps make no sense, why would I fly an Me262 for ten minutes to stress out about my 2 sec window to hit an a.i. - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. What do you expect? Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). If you do spot him racing between the hills you will have difficulties to shoot him because the time window where he is the ope is rather short. You can skip APCR because it won't do much. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. What is the Caernarvon? Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. They have large gun built on small and light chassis, so the weight of the gun makes it bounce after braking. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. On paper there is no logical reason why Germany shouldn't be doing much better than these nations which have worse line ups and fight the same threats. 'S case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness but alsooff-road mobility, and wrote a of! Those M22s too varying widely you agree that having a small and fast helps. And kill or wipe out your turret crew Germany is no exception benefit from making sound! 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Apcr because it wo n't be able to flank them tank 's ability, with severity... Who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation the likes of P-47s Fireflies! To play and inferior to the side literally shoot the huge side of the people who play same... You will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams but how often do see. Best luchs images in 2020 panzer II Military exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack thread... For me it is a sufficiently big map he will go around you ( maps. Person, pop out, shoot and repeat know the stories about feared. 'S case, this is already quite relevant to my interests I do n't when in vehicles. That will be exposed series does n't have CQC maps not buying the. Of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure Skies. Do you see good teamplay in randombattles a 1 on 1 I would say German... 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